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  • Ah yes, this is the same Janeane Garofalo who called black conservatives “house negroes” and called conservative Christians “a bunch of d***ks”. She refers to anybody that disagress with her as creeps, cretins, bigots, homophobes. etc. And yet she has also lashed out at conservative talk-show hosts as purveyors of “hate radio”. The hypocrisy here is stunning.

  • It is not a hypocrisy that stuns you anonymous…it is the response of the reactionary corner the left has found itself pushed into. At times I view this type rhetoric as counter productive albeit, yet I get mad and frustrated and no matter how the truth gets articulated, it remains ignored. So at some point a paradigm shift occurs to best adapt to the current realities.

    It is funny how anonymous, and I believe he-she is a conservative republican type (I could be wrong, but all the earmarks are there) is so quick to point out the vulgarities of a liberal to the point he-she is afraid to write out “dicks” as if that word alone is the most offensive in the english language. I would bet dollars to do-nuts this same individual would have sat within their peer group hissing at and calling a less aggressive “peacenik” type liberal a “pussy” or use similar reference to their commitment of non-violence.

    At any rate Ms. Garofalo has reached her boiling point some time ago, and lets face it drama is her buisness, but she still gets closer to the truth then most. I have never heard Ms. Garofalo actualize an act of violence against any person(s) as her rightwing-nut nemesis counter parts such as : Limbough, Coulter, Savage, Beck etc. do on a weekly basis.

    Anonymous, you should be listening to your own and listen carefully to what they have been spewing as your representative over the past fifteen years. A sampling analysis of right-wing left-wing radio would certainly set the record straight on who promotes the lions share of discord and hate. For so long “conservatives” have told us we liberals have it all wrong and we should emulate their belief systems, well buster, beware what you wish for.

    Other then that, great show enjoyed the conversation, and apparently you hit some nerves…question is, was there a connection. And on the other hand there are all us liberals that don’t get to mad, just even…karma is hell.

  • Agreed, benmerc. However, the right’s bad karma could situationally translate into our bad karma as well: it’s just that big and stupid that there will be spill-over to deal with.

    As far as “counter productive rhetoric” and mud-hurling…I also agree, but admit that at times I’m not above it. So many smug Deniers of The Obvious out there.

    I’ve been a fan of Janeane ever since the early 90s when she did those Comedy Central commercials where she was the teacher giving advice to children on the nature of evil in our world!…frat guys who hold plastic cups filled with beer and chant “whoooooo!,” and women who claim that “The Bridges of Madison Cty” is “the BEST book!”… What a hoot.

    Also saw her last summer on C-SPAN, on a panel, discussing what-I don’t recall, typical left/right split though, in an auditorium, and the right wing loudmouths like Joe Scarburough(sp?)would drown her out and shout her down. She was livid, looked like she might have been ready to take her leave but kept her cool and didn’t. I don’t get AA where I’m at, but I know I’ve read that she’s a confirmed “conspiracy theorist,” which anymore I guess is code for admitting you see what many people don’t want to.

  • I would have liked to here more from MCM. I think he got drowned out a little bit.

  • Oops. I meant ‘hear’, not ‘here’. You know what I mean.

  • DD:

    Yea…got to keep track of the “comes around ” part of karma, no doubt. Besides, if we become like them, they will have won.

  • Maybe Ms. Garofalo hasn’t “actualized acts of violence against other people”, but the same thing can’t be said about her fellow hosts at Air America. Randi Rhodes has joked twice about assassinating President Bush. Mike Malloy has said the founder of the Blogs For Bush website should get the crap kicked out of him.

  • I know they have ramped up that kind of talk, and we could trade off who said what and who started it when. To me that would be a waste of time. I just think when a conservative attacks someone like a Garofalo, on grounds her rhetoric is to agressive, I think you need to find another angle. Because conservative talk radio has this degraded style of social discourse perfected. If it continues to evolve in the liberal radio market, maybe in a few years I won’t be able to make this statement. But for now I feel confident in my appraisal.

    Hopefully at some point the general public will get so sick of hearing this kind of garbage they will run those who persist on this style of rhetoric from the market. I still enjoy Randi Rhodes and Mike Malloy, yes sometimes they get wound up, but at least their derogatory remarks seem more honest and in tune with their emotions, where as when I listen to Ann Coulter , or Rush Limbaugh…they seem very calculated in their expressions. But then again I am clearly biased.

  • “Hopefully at some point the general public will get so sick of hearing this kind of garbage they will run those who persist on this style of rhetoric from the market”

    Yeah, okay there, you Pollyanna, you…;) LOL

    As you rightly claim, the right has perfected it since the projection stems from their psychological motives.

    Sometimes it’s difficult not to respond in kind …in other words, stopping a war can be incredibly difficult.

    I could say a great deal on all of this, I mean, it’s someone behaving like a dangerous asshole and in turn inciting and encouraging other dangerous assholes, and then when someone calls them on it, the dangerous assholes scream, “You’re attacking US, you wish to censor US!” Well, it’s bullshit and you know it. Normally it wouldn’t matter so much, but we’re talking about the …reflection/perception of the mass mind regarding will the populace back or revolt against a corrupt power structure that wishes to wage further wars in ALL of our names. So, to them I say, go fuck yourself.

    And I think that’s a trap best avoided by oppenents of the right i.e. sane people. If it involves anger, yes, so be it; decent people have every right to be angry over a mass of brainwashed simpletons waving flags in misguided, belligerent defense of those in power who have completely subverted that which the flag is supposed to represent.

    Avoiding that unavoidable fact is no different than dem reps who refuse to look into voter/election reform, or any number of issues they’re only shrinking from out of denial or a fear of breaking from polite biz-as-usual.

    BTW, you misunderstood me on the karmic point — I didn’t mean we’d become like them, so to speak, the psychological/emotional impetus differs greatly, although most people have some “projective” aspects to their personality. What I meant by saying that the right’s bad karma will be ours too is that, given the weaponry and warring technologies available, after another world war is on…..well, you see now where I’m going with that. Out of all of the great problems we face, I think the obvious fact that we’re perilously close to that brink is the biggest one most are in denial of, which is to suggest a great lack of the public’s understanding of the religious beliefs driving much of what’s happening.

  • “At least their derogatory remarks seem more honest and in tune with their emotions…” Oh, you mean Randi Rhodes is serious about killing President Bush?? Mike Malloy is serious about beating the crap of the Blogs For Bush founder?? I’ll let that speak for itself. “Decent people have every right to be angry over a mass of brainwashed simpletons…” Yeah, that’s a familiar tune. Lefties are good and holy, and conservatives are morons. This reminds me of all the people who flipped me off when I attended an Inaguaration Day counter-protest. I didn’t get mad; I just laughed.

  • Actually my point had nothing to do with anyone’s intellectual status, I was speaking of notions closer to the heart. Emotions rarely spring from intellectual deductions. Good thing you don’t anger readily, you seem to misinterpret, maybe the guy shooting the bird just ment “were #1”.

  • dd:

    Well I do not wish censorship on anyone, and a societies going to move in whatever directions it feels comfortable in going. I think we are in the early stages of free speech as it currently stands…. (Well we may say most anything, problem is… what sinks in, or is accepted) Much of what we see going on today is the right wing’s reaction to the social upheaval of the mid century onward. With the geo-political and social changes came uncertainty, an atmosphere conservatives are uncomfortable in. And they have been lashing out more aggressively these last ten to fifteen years.
    Of course the liberal side is up against the wall for the most part, as they are playing catch-up with right wing radio. And the once famous “liberal press/media” has done a rather exemplary job carrying water for this administration as it stands. It is a tough play out there, and you are correct people are going to do and say what ever it takes to get their point across, as they should. I just think a dumbed down angry mob like attitude may be manipulated or directed with less effort by those who would. Basically our anger gives them power in a manner of speaking. And I am speaking of the political strategists and others involved with the mechanisms that regulate our lives whether we realize it or not.

    On the karma thing, maybe it was just where my head was at, I have a vindictive streak.
    Never the less what goes around comes around, it is orbital by nature

  • Yes, in a very real way, this particular rightist movement does thrive on its oppenents anger, although there’s absolutely nothing “conservative” about this movement; they’ve merely relied on that banner because it sounds rational, and has “patriotism” and “religion” as its two major strategic fronts, and sorry ananymous, those are two areas that the ignorant and easily-led will always fall prey to in large numbers — it’s an historic reality.

    Now, I wouldn’t say that “lefties are holy,” that’s your extrapolation. Although I do have a Jesus Christ: WANTED poster: wanted for sedition, vagrancy and of trying to overthrow the established government.

    He was also a beared long-hair who spoke truth to power, which is why he was killed/silenced, and with his tenets of turn the other cheek to your enemies, he’d hardly fit into your camp of hostile, bloodlusting, racist homophobes who are salivating over the prospect of an all out “holy war” with “them Muslims.”

    Basically, I’ll almost always side-up with someone liberal-minded over anyone bearing any shade of traditional or neo conservatism, for, based on my own experiences, it’s usually the latter group that is pro-any and everything I disagree with. They always claim the moral high ground by virtue of their faith, yet their faith is supposed to be based on tolerance and peace and understanding, while, again, based on my experiences, their mindset and subsequent behavior usually doesn’t reflect those qualities at all, in fact, usually just the opposite.

    And that, I think, plays a large part in defining much of this so-called “Christian” movement in this country as psychologically “projective;” it’s not an attack against Christinanity per se, not at all, but against this mass of people who suffer from this this delusion of needing to believe it’s the tenets of Christianity that their lives [and movement] are grounded in, while in reality, their supposed “Christianity” is little more than the socially acceptable wrapping paper needed to disguise quite anti-Christian views. Again, “projection.”

    You see, anoymous, Jesus doesn’t want us to be hateful and stupid. Had you been on the just side of the inauguration protest, the side revealing the motives of troubled conscience – our direct line to whatever we perceive “god” to be -you wouldn’t have found anything funny to laugh at. You’d have taken no deep, smug satisfaction over thinking yourself to be somehow right, and those protesting being inherently wrong. It always baffles me how so many of the real flag-waving Christians, the ones who wear it right on their sleeve, somehow manage to always get it so horribly wrong.

    As far as categorizing the “morons,” as anonymous put it…I tend to believe that most Americans are woefully ignorant regarding the matters of their lives, their country, and of what’s taking place around the world. There’s a difference between stupidity and ignorance though, and the collective avoidance/denial supports the mass ignorance, or, as the loonie David Icke puts it, ignore-ance.

    In more honest times it would be called brainwashing and propaganda.

  • possing…

    I agree, but MCM has been on AA enough times …he knows his way around the studio personalities, and they have given him a decent amount of time on air, as they should.

  • dd:

    Christianity = pervasive determinancy

  • Ha, well, it’s one of many defining belief system that often attracts the wrong ones for the wrong reasons. I lean more toward Gnosticism, which is religious existentialism.

    What I perceive this movement to have done is to – again, in keeping with “projection” – adopt Jesus’ stance of the lowly, downtrodden, persecuted man speaking truth to power, and of standing for and with such “lowly” common individuals in defiance of power, as a means of lending credence to what they know in their heart is poisonous, anti-Christ beliefs and values. It’s power’s way of adopting the persona of the truly marginalized. It’s equally grotesque.

    I mean, that’s not exactly all that insightful of a revelation, is it?…it’s worked that way for a very long time. As long as simple people can cut mental corners by relying on formulating their belief systems around the rhetoric of someone else, they’ll do so, because they’re mentally lazy and emotionally stunted in all areas concerning remorse and pity, with the backlash energy of that suppression in turn channelled into aggression against any who question their chosen belief system.

    It’s a sickness painted over with commerical gloss, as to try to be something it’s truly not. In turn, those afflicted reinforce the delusion that it’s not a sickness. By it’s nature, it blinds people to the truth, and by cultural extension, it’s become so pervasive that even the majority not afflicted directly by it are none the less still affected by the manifestation of its symptoms: you can’t question another’s “faith,” everyone is entitled to their own “opinion,” you shouldn’t discuss religion or politics in public, etc.

    In other words, there’s no remaining standard of shit and shinola at all. The right would obviously like to place the blame of this “moral relativity” at the feet of “liberals,” when it’s not the case, and if you take the time to walk it through, you’ll see it’s just more typical “projection.”

    This illustrates the crux of the problem with “moderates;” choosing this particular form of denial as a starting point for one’s views reveals a, to use George Carlin’s term, “pussified”, clinging to illusory territory out of a need to “feel safe.”.

    Well, we’re not safe, we’re not in Kansas, anymore, okay, Toto. We’re long past the “safety” of middle ground here, and the whole “moderate” thing sounds good in theory, but in application, it’s just more rooted-in-denial/avoidance butt-kissing; a wishing for the problems not to be by pretending that all sides can or will “come together” for a common good. Well, the right doesn’t want common good because they NEED enemies. That’s what a lot of this movement is hinged upon.

    One of the great ironies of this is that one of the right’s talking points is to accuse the “left” [however one cares to define that broad range] of “relying on emotion instead of logic” to back up their views/beliefs…..yet, the right is apparently supposed to largely consist of “Christians!”….ha, yeah, exactly. And the kicker being that, most of em apparently can’t see the HUGE discrepancy in that! Wowzer bowzer, indeed.

    Not to mention that when you attempt to explain with facts to an average person supporting the nefarious Bushco that they’ll simply reveal either one of two things: 1) they cannot be bothered with “facts,” because they instead rely on their faith. 2) they’re unable to comprehend the facts of the situation, because they happen to really like so and so, and since they really like so and so, they’ll believe whatever so and so wants them to believe, and there ya go; their mind is made up – pervasive determinancy – and reality shan’t sway their highly moral beliefs. Again, it’s power and its supporters donning the persona of the marginalized; “Oh, poor, poor pitiful us…”

    Beliefs. Deductive reasoning skill never enters into the equation, and that’s why many on the right rely on limited, strategically channelled emotion to defend the media instruction they’ve been wooed by, hook, line and sinker, and why most of them will avoid a debate regarding such things: they’re not in touch with their conscience, nor are they inclined to reseach issues that they know deep down will pull the rug out from underneath their particular belief structure, nor are many of them – from what I’ve encountered – bright enough to do so with any basic understanding of the information.

    This goes a long way in explaining the domino affect of America’s “dumbing down;” as people know less, what constitues much of the public discourse is comprised of what they’ve been instructed to know and “value,” so when you apply this to “the political debate,” there’s this fallacy of everyone’s entitled opinion being just as “valid” as the next guy’s, which is pure bullshit, because in the end, someone is right, and someone is wrong. For instance, pre-emptively invading a tiny country under false circumstances, slaughtering scores of their population and occupying it through military force is morally wrong on numerous levels. Yet, within the public’s propagandized lexicon, we’re to believe that the two chief public positions on Iraq contain equal merits within each position, and it just depends on which name brand party each sucker votes for …which is bullshit.

    That’s not me saying that those who endorse such slaughter and creation-of terrorism should be censored, in expressing their views, that’s me saying that to hold such views is to embrace deceit and evil.

  • Time to expose some lies, DD. Jesus did NOT advocate the overthrow of the governmemnt. Some of his apostles (like Simon the Zealot) did, but he told Pilate and the world, “My Kingdom is not of this world”. He also said “Pay Caesar what is due Caesar”, remember? And I will not let you get away with that lie about Christians who hold conservative viewpoints. We are not racists or homophobes, and you know it. That blanket statement is just as false as saying all left-wingers are anarchistic treasonous punks. And I will not be part of any protest that is peppered with signs that say “F### Bush” or “Kill Bush” (yes, I really did see a sign that said that). That, in my opinion, is NOT “the right side of the protest”. That’s my story, and I’m sticking to it.

  • You missed my point and have exposed not one lie, anonymous.

    Given Jesus’ persuasive insistence for all to reject power’s various temptations, one of the charges against him by the Roman government was of attempting to overthrow the power structure. The charge was enough, and that’s the point, and one you’re not able to see in relation to common people speaking truth to power, then or now.

    So, in these days, how bizarre it is for followers of Christ [some, certainly not all] to instead stand with the corrupt, illegitimate power structure instead of opposing it as Jesus did. Your faith isn’t a weapon to use against all you’ve been conditioned to be offended by…or, at least, at it’s best, shouldn’t be. The fact that scores of people feel alienated by orthodox religions speaks to how the unenlightened assholes have seized control of it’s social strategies and talking points. It’s like Lenny Bruce once said, “I’m glad more people are leaving the church and finding god.”

    Also, you should know that I don’t lump every believer under one heading. Not every Christian is a racist, sexist homophobe. It just so happens, however, again, based on my own dealings with people, that many of the more steadfast, vocal supporters of the fascist Bushco are of that particular stripe, which makes sense given that I’ve never seen a more blatant use and abuse of “faith” than by this current batch of psychopaths.

    Subsequently, this reflects on those who are highly susceptible to the lowballing techniques of snake oil salesman. It only works/resonates because it openly identifies specific “enemies,” revealing how hatred is the spine for the right’s movement.

    You should also realize that many people aren’t given to formulating a nuanced argument over U.S. domestic/foreign policy, yet are instinctively aware of something stinking to high heaven, so when you see the “fuck/kill Bush” nonsense, it’s simply a “street” level form of protest; most people who bear such slogans, although they’ll never actually have the direct chance, wouldn’t really try to “kill” the prez or anyone else. If you want to see such fatal impulses acted upon in mass, blind adherence, look no further than religious and/or military/nationalistic indoctrination/brainwashing.

    I’d also recommend researching the origins of Christianity, many specifics of which are traceable to other religions that existed long before Jesus’ time…and that’s not suggest I don’t believe in something greater that we’re all somehow connected to, I just think that the crucial point of the various pedestal figures throughout time is often missed by masses controlled by the Few Big.

    People get hung up on the dogmatic specifics because they’re instructed to. It’s that area that encompasses the greatest aspect of man controlling/condemning man through appeals to the lowest common denomenator, which does, as history shows, resonate with the ignorant and spiteful impulses of man.

    In other words, abortion and gay marriage can easily be transformed into these do-or-die crusading movements, while the more important aspect of Jesus – a social malcontent standing for peace and speaking truth to power and dying for it – can be completely alien to those conditioned to see all through the anti-abortion/anti-gay marriage type lense.

  • Very cool design! Useful information. Go on!

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